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Released 2012-01-17 17:13:19 -1000
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I’ve been around hitRECord for about a year, and in that year I’ve noticed a growing trend on hitRECord. What happens is, Joe will ask the community to create something - the Fall Formal dialogue, for example, or an intro video to a show, or the Amoeba poster, or a video re: whatever subject was going to be discussed at an event. In all of these cases there were dozens of submissions, and several that really stood out in terms of both quality and popularity within the community. In every single one of these cases, instead of contacting the makers of one of those and asking them to simply make a few tweaks or edits, a third party called in by the moderators re-did the entire record, and no one knew until the final product was put out and they realized that it wasn't anything they'd seen before. And I've been distressed to hear that much of what will be shown at Sundance is not being made in the normal collaborative fashion, but rather by people being contacted behind-the-scenes to make the final contribution.

I've been one of the people with a popular submission in a few of these instances, and it sucks. It  didn't suck because I wasn't chosen, because I was always very aware that was an unlikely option, but because I had done everything right - I had put in time and effort and recieved the support of the community or sometimes even a feature - and then it was deemed not good enough to actually be what was showcased. It makes you not want to bother or try next time. The issue isn’t being rejected. The issue is that the opportunity you thought you were being offered was never really an opportunity at all.

This isn't just discouraging to creators, it's discouraging to the entire community. What's empowering about hitRECord is that even people who don't feel skilled creatively can get involved through curation. They can be part of the community and make their opinions on works heard, they can generate ideas, and they can promote ideas they like or edit/make suggestions on ones they don't. And as far as I'm concerned, this process is the main function of hitRECord. We are meant to be a community.  It's even the first thing Joe says in the introductory "What Is hitRECord?" video - we are "an open collaborative production company, and this website is where we make things together. " I want that to be true. I want that to be the community I'm part of. But when we lose the ability to even help choose who makes the products that represent us, we lose the ability to stand behind that quote.

It is not necessary to me that hitRECord be perfect, or always fair. It is not necessary to me that there not be people whose work is more popular than others, because I view that as an unavoidable reality. But I do think we can and should aim to stand behind those ideas. I think it's necessary (and achievable) that hitRECord not be hypocritical. Either we are a community and a collaborative production company, or we are not. Either we are different from the way things are run in that truly anyone gets a chance to contribute to the site, or we're just a microcosm of the same flawed system we're attempting to break free of - one where people are chosen and anointed to take on projects rather than looked at based on the merits of their contributions.

I realize we have less than two weeks  to Sundance. I realize there are reasons for choosing this method of operation - especially when expediency and high quality are required.  But it is concerning to me that instead of using this as a last resort, or having this be the exception to the rule, it's instead become seemingly the only way things get done on hitRECord. And quite frankly, I would rather there be less shown at Sundance of perhaps less finished quality than have a lot of slickly-made things that the community as a whole never really had a chance to be involved in.

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  • Itwasallyellow
    And also RHM, thank you for this record. Your eloquence is something to aspire to and really makes one want to contribute to the discussion :D
    2012-01-19 17:35:13 +0200
  • Itwasallyellow
    Hmmm... I'd never thought about it in this way.

    I mean, when it comes to one's project being utilized/chosen to be in the final product vs one's project BEING the final product, I've taken to seeing them [for the purposes of HR]as being one and the same.

    I think part of the point of HR is to expect transmutation of one's project via remixing as a given, as long as those doing the remixing are themselves part of the community, which Dr. Gory, Jared and Joe ultimately are.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that, they way I understand it, nothing is ever "the final product" in our business model.
    2012-01-19 17:31:10 +0200
  • Out%20of%20the%20box%20logo%20white
    Wow, I just joined the site a couple weeks ago and have thought about everything being posted here, pretty much from day 1. Since I'm new here I won't pretend to know how much time and effort you all have put into various projects but I will say this, I was lucky enough to have my very first record featured (a basic coverage edit of the LRRH event). I then did a second more elaborate edit which included a lot of HR art, but alas, was not featured. There is no question to me that my second cut was more entertaining than the first one but who am I to say, after all I do feel lucky to have been featured on the first one to begin with. I thought perhaps they didn't like the creative direction I took with the second cut but like many of you, I haven't received any notes, so It looks like I'm done with that project until further notice. Also, I haven't seen any other completed versions of LRRH, so the fact that I haven't received any notes makes me think that the final edit is being handled in a specific fashion. LOTS OF QUESTIONS.

    On the flip side, this site is so unique that it must be absolutely nuts to try and organize things in a way that everyone can appreciate. I think the fact that we're even here, on this site, having this discussion is a positive thing. Again, I'm new and don't mean to offend any long standing HR'ers who may have a different opinion. Nothing is perfect, even the best things have flaws, and here we are..

    I am eager to see how things unfold at HR and can only hope that the process evolves for the better in the future.

    Thanks for this note RHM, it was very well said :)
    2012-01-18 23:07:53 +0200
  • Diane1
    I wish it were possible to know when "final" selections have been made and when further contributions to collabs unnecessary. I'm not sure if maybe those things are being communicated (like if Joe comments on a record, is it a done deal? If something is "featured", does that mean anything?) It's just a shame if people are still working tirelessly on something that has already been "done" (if that makes sense)
    2012-01-18 21:03:00 +0200
    by DianeFT
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    Barush - I see that as part of the dirty job of being a director. Yes, you have to choose someone and yes, someone's feelings are going to get hurt. But it's better to choose someone than to choose no one and have everyone's feelings be hurt. This is especially true when it comes to video editing - it's a weird medium. It's not like almost everything else on hR we do where you can be part of something even if you don't make the final product, video editing IS the final product. In that case especially, I think it's even more important to use as many people as possible so there aren't certain types of remixers that know no matter how hard they work, their work will never be shown.
    2012-01-18 20:44:27 +0200
  • Portraitec2
    "So, I might be wrong, but how I see it it's probably better to take a bit out of everything and make a remix that Joe likes (because it'll always be his executive decision) ans that uses as much from the contributions as possible."

    Ah, makes sense now, well put barush.
    2012-01-18 20:41:55 +0200
  • Portrait
    Julia, I've read your latest comment on this and I thought I'd add my few cents, regardless if anyone reads it or not. Anyways, as you've said there's a lot of great video editors (going with the example you've used) and I'd say that's part of the problem. Because how would you like to choose which videos get shown? For example RE: OWS. There's been great contributions, but which one is the best? Yours? Ryan Patrick's? Missamerica's? The one that has the most hearts? Ultimately, it'd be up to Joe to choose and I can see this exact same problem coming up. "Why did he choose this and not that? The one he didn't choose had more hearts!" and so on and so forth.

    So, I might be wrong, but how I see it it's probably better to take a bit out of everything and make a remix that Joe likes (because it'll always be his executive decision) ans that uses as much from the contributions as possible.
    2012-01-18 20:37:50 +0200
    by barush
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    Joe,
    First of all, thanks for responding. I know you're busy and that means a lot.

    I completely respect that you are the director and in charge of this crazy party ship we call hitRECord, and I know from experience that getting creative people to all go in one direction is a lot like herding cats, but someone needs to do it. And I understand that you also have an extremely busy life that means that sometimes communication gets the shaft. I know you and the rest of the team are working at improving communication, and I see a lot of progress being made in that direction. And again, I thank you for addressing that concern. But I'm afraid that's only half my point.

    The main part of my point is not simply that there seems to be a lack of communication, but that there's a narrowing of opportunity for the average site user. Yes, you, Marke, Dr. Gory, and others are part of the community, but the role you occupy in the community is, by necessity, very different than that of the average user. You are all part of a moderation team. You already have a heightened level of involvement and participation in events. If the average user wants their work shown at an event, their chances, if they are not a member of the moderation team, seem to be narrowing instead of improving. And that concerns me. Not, as I pointed out before, because success is the end all, be all, but because it becomes a question of feeling valued.

    On a personal level, I've felt this pretty keenly twice. Off-site, I'm primarily a writer. I know that when the request for a Fall Formal dialogue came out, I was extremely excited. That's the kind of opportunity I never, ever would normally get, and I know a lot of writers on the site felt the same way.But when the time actually came, you ended up using a dialog that none of us had written. It wasn't a question of if it was good, because it was Rian so of course it was great, but it did feel like a slap in the face. Even if it's not your intention (and I'm sure it wasn't), it comes across as saying that not only were none of us able to produce something worth performing, but they weren't even worth contacting someone and asking them to do revisions.

    On the site, I'm mainly a video editor, and this is probably where I feel this the most. Making a video is a lot of hard work. I've been rewarded for my hard work by being featured, and I'm extremely grateful for that. But when it comes time for the show, the videos produced are almost always made by Dr. Gory. And I always wonder - would it really be so hard to instead ask a video editor to make a few revisions instead of having someone like Dr. Gory re-invent the wheel? It ends up feeling like, again, a lack of trust. It's probably not intentional, but it comes across as saying that you don't trust any other video editor to make a cut you're satisfied with. And again, that's dispiriting.

    Yes, communication would go a long way towards fixing this problem, and it would be hugely appreciated. But it's not going to help if what you're communicating is still that people are being contacted off-site and pre-chosen to be put in charge of creating final products, instead of keeping the community open to accepting new talents.

    - Julia
    2012-01-18 20:26:24 +0200
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