Wherein Jules proposes several ideas, but especially a treatment and a collaboration page to all interested parties and waits for people to throw rotten fruit for long, boring video (and hopefully some responses about ideas.)
CONVERSATION
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RE: Alice vs. Alico: Story Time
BRI93 remarked on March 12, 2010
Thank You :)
Im glad you like my poster.
BRI93 remarked on March 12, 2010
Thank You :)
Im glad you like my poster.
RE: Alice vs. Alico: Story Time
JustMeg remarked on March 07, 2010
Oh, thanks again for the encouragement ntheon!
JustMeg remarked on March 07, 2010
Oh, thanks again for the encouragement ntheon!
RE: Alice vs. Alico: Story Time
JustMeg remarked on March 07, 2010
I just RECorded a collaboration based around the idea of hitRECordland as you suggested ntheon: http://www.hitrecord.org/records/58063
Yes, I definitely drew most of my inspiration for that little story from Willy Wonka, particularly the character that is Joe, an eccentric, lovable personality. Mainly I just took the idea of putting hitRECorders into wonderland and instead tried to put them into their own world, I guess it never really did fit in with the Alice collab at all.
JustMeg remarked on March 07, 2010
I just RECorded a collaboration based around the idea of hitRECordland as you suggested ntheon: http://www.hitrecord.org/records/58063
Yes, I definitely drew most of my inspiration for that little story from Willy Wonka, particularly the character that is Joe, an eccentric, lovable personality. Mainly I just took the idea of putting hitRECorders into wonderland and instead tried to put them into their own world, I guess it never really did fit in with the Alice collab at all.
RE: Alice vs. Alico: Story Time
ntheon remarked on March 07, 2010
Oh, btw, HitRECordland does not strike me as being all that Alice in Wonderland - It has the quality of epic journey through a very carnival inspired world. I see the influences being more like the end of Wizard of Oz, but more than anything I see the influence of Willy Wonka, with Joe in that role.
And as Oz included many lands within it, HitRECordland has unlimited room to be an "umbrella" within which sits Morganland and any other fantastical worlds we might create in the future. This is another part of the reason why this particular concept excites me so much.
ntheon remarked on March 07, 2010
Oh, btw, HitRECordland does not strike me as being all that Alice in Wonderland - It has the quality of epic journey through a very carnival inspired world. I see the influences being more like the end of Wizard of Oz, but more than anything I see the influence of Willy Wonka, with Joe in that role.
And as Oz included many lands within it, HitRECordland has unlimited room to be an "umbrella" within which sits Morganland and any other fantastical worlds we might create in the future. This is another part of the reason why this particular concept excites me so much.
RE: Alice vs. Alico: Story Time
ntheon remarked on March 07, 2010
JustMeg - I think a collab for it would be a great idea, and I think you would be the appropriate person to start it, contributing and featuring your original hitRECordland RECord to start it off.
As I said, hitRECordland is different, it's not fan fiction and not even connected to Alice, it's our original. True, it *is* inward looking, but it is our own mythology, and I think it is the one place where we can look inward.
(Well, that and the HitRECord Manifesto collab - which is inward but also outward looking, as we will have to explain ourselves and our concept to potential memebers and the wider world)
But, as a mythology, I think it stands a good chance of gaining outside interest, the same way I can find Hindu art and mythology compelling even though it is far from my own culture.
All I can say is, I don't worry too much whether a project gets traction or not, since it costs virtually no effort to set up a collab. These things seem to pick up interest at the most random times - maybe weeks or months later, like planting seed without knowing what season or year it's supposed to germinate in.
ntheon remarked on March 07, 2010
JustMeg - I think a collab for it would be a great idea, and I think you would be the appropriate person to start it, contributing and featuring your original hitRECordland RECord to start it off.
As I said, hitRECordland is different, it's not fan fiction and not even connected to Alice, it's our original. True, it *is* inward looking, but it is our own mythology, and I think it is the one place where we can look inward.
(Well, that and the HitRECord Manifesto collab - which is inward but also outward looking, as we will have to explain ourselves and our concept to potential memebers and the wider world)
But, as a mythology, I think it stands a good chance of gaining outside interest, the same way I can find Hindu art and mythology compelling even though it is far from my own culture.
All I can say is, I don't worry too much whether a project gets traction or not, since it costs virtually no effort to set up a collab. These things seem to pick up interest at the most random times - maybe weeks or months later, like planting seed without knowing what season or year it's supposed to germinate in.
RE: Alice vs. Alico: Story Time
Jules Alder remarked on March 07, 2010
Meg, There is a HitRecord the musical collab, but like the Alice Idea for Wonderland, it just doesn't have a lot of traction. It may be that the influx of thousands of people since Sundance has diluted the cohesion of HitRecord, or it might just not be the right time or thing. All I know is that, weeks after coming up with an idea about people drawing friends on HR and turning them into Wonderland characters, only one true mash-up got drawn. To me, that's very telling. The conclusion that I've drawn after careful consideration and feeling some people out is that folks want to stretch their abilities a bit more, and to really start looking outward with ambition, rather than inward. And that's not a bad thing.
Jules Alder remarked on March 07, 2010
Meg, There is a HitRecord the musical collab, but like the Alice Idea for Wonderland, it just doesn't have a lot of traction. It may be that the influx of thousands of people since Sundance has diluted the cohesion of HitRecord, or it might just not be the right time or thing. All I know is that, weeks after coming up with an idea about people drawing friends on HR and turning them into Wonderland characters, only one true mash-up got drawn. To me, that's very telling. The conclusion that I've drawn after careful consideration and feeling some people out is that folks want to stretch their abilities a bit more, and to really start looking outward with ambition, rather than inward. And that's not a bad thing.
RE: Alice vs. Alico: Story Time
JustMeg remarked on March 07, 2010
Hey, ntheon is there a hitRECordland collab? I think that's a really good idea! I think a place created that takes its inspiration from Carroll's wonderland but instead includes hitRECorders could be fun and entirely new.
I do understand the concerns that surfaced here in terms of fan fiction, the goal is to reinvent the wheel, not recreate it and that does seem to be happening. As you said ntheon there are different forms of fan fiction and what has come from the Alice collab is a lot of great art even if it somewhat borders on fan fiction.
I like your ideas about myth and how hitRECord fits into today's culture. I feel that there is a cycle that occurs between society and art. Our society influences the art which in turn creates a new society, perhaps that is what is occurring on hitRECord. HitRECord was created from societal pressures, Joe saw a need for the new media, which is still developing, and the old traditional way of doing things to come together so he created this amazing place. We create new art, which will then hopefully create a new society. Of course, the whole idea of REmixing art has been going on for centuries, but it is reinvented to best suit the culture that is present at the time.
I love mythology (btw LOTR was my favorite when I was younger), and I can't wait to see how the myth of hitRECord naturally develops and to be a part of it is even better.
JustMeg remarked on March 07, 2010
Hey, ntheon is there a hitRECordland collab? I think that's a really good idea! I think a place created that takes its inspiration from Carroll's wonderland but instead includes hitRECorders could be fun and entirely new.
I do understand the concerns that surfaced here in terms of fan fiction, the goal is to reinvent the wheel, not recreate it and that does seem to be happening. As you said ntheon there are different forms of fan fiction and what has come from the Alice collab is a lot of great art even if it somewhat borders on fan fiction.
I like your ideas about myth and how hitRECord fits into today's culture. I feel that there is a cycle that occurs between society and art. Our society influences the art which in turn creates a new society, perhaps that is what is occurring on hitRECord. HitRECord was created from societal pressures, Joe saw a need for the new media, which is still developing, and the old traditional way of doing things to come together so he created this amazing place. We create new art, which will then hopefully create a new society. Of course, the whole idea of REmixing art has been going on for centuries, but it is reinvented to best suit the culture that is present at the time.
I love mythology (btw LOTR was my favorite when I was younger), and I can't wait to see how the myth of hitRECord naturally develops and to be a part of it is even better.
RE: Alice vs. Alico: Story Time
ntheon remarked on February 17, 2010
I think it makes good sense at this point to give this concept it's own collab. I notice that the "Alice hits RECord" collab has grown *huge* (and perhaps unwieldy) and has budded off some major sub-concepts, that one by one I think will need to "leave the nest" and get their own collabs. I think a 30 to 50 minute animated short is a realistic goal, provided you can develop more characters, and I know you guys can do it.
I do share similar feelings as Man With Hat, that this is a type of fan fiction, though I would not call them concerns, so much.
If what you are creating here is indeed fan fiction, it may well be among the cleverst and artistic of fan fiction. It's definitely going to be fun, and I have enjoyed what I'm seeing come out of it. (I bet I'm not the only guy here who finds the Madhattress a huge turn on. :) ) Much of the bad rap on fan fiction comes from the fact that most of it is just not very good art. But there are exceptions - I have occasionally found what I would call fan fiction that is successful as art, and that certainly seems to be the case here.
I think what gives it that fan fiction sense, even though it is much better art than run of the mill fanfic, is the basic premise of the concept. To me, what makes something fanfic, regardless of whether it is good, bad or in between, is the element of wish fulfillment - obviously taking one's own characters (often a projection of oneself, one's close friends, or one's fantasies of people they would like to know) and shoving them into someone else's established fictional universe, often without any regard for how well the character(s) fits in the established universe. Thus what is known as the Mary Sue character (
Well, we create plenty of amazing, completely original work, such as MMM. What makes HitRECordland special, however, is that it actually has sociological implications for us. HitRECordland has all the hallmarks of a brand spankin' new cultural mythology. It is an allegorical story we tell ourselves, about ourselves. HitRECordland takes that to the next level, making that break from another mythos into creating a completely original mythology for our culture.
I think Jules' concept of putting hitRECorders into Wonderland may have been the beta test, the first crack at creating such a mythology. It tapped into our basic desire, as a new culture, to create a story to tell ourselves about ourselves.
A mythology is how any culture understands who we are and what our shared beliefs and values are, and how we orient and teach (enculturate) new members what we are about and how we do things here. Every culture needs a mythology for that reason - we have all seen the need for something that unifies our new culture and allows everyone who joins us to absorb our common values. It's how cultures develop coherence.
Because hitRECord is indeed a culture, a new culture for a new sort of virtual society, a community that exists online. Every great world culture has it's mythology, and hitRECordland may well prove to be *our* mythology. (This new hitRECord culture may even grow to supplant the real world culture that gave rise to it, as it's new ways and more positive values migrate offline into our daily lives, and hopefully radiate outward to include more and more of the world population.)
A cultural mythology (as opposed to a deliberately designed mythos, such as that of, say Tolkein - who himself REmixed heavily from several cultural mythologies) is by definition a large scale creative product that grows spontaneously as a vast collaboration of many people over considerable time. Sound familiar? Long before the age of individual authorship and ownership, whole societies were creating the world's most timeless art together, and owning it in common. The products of such immense collaborations are so good that they almost always make great literature that is enjoyed by completely different cultures all over the world.
In short, these societies did it the hitRECord way. Millenia before the Internet existed. And given that we are a society complete with a culture, I expect hitRECord will prove particularly adept at creating many new mythologies (among many other things).' target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue ).
Fan fiction is thus a perfectly legitimate form of REmix (though one that is not so much to my personal taste), And as we see here, it can in rare instances be some high quality art. Which is why I say I agree with Man With Hat, without necessarily being too concerned about it. I am interested to see whether and how well this particular style of REmix ends up being received outside of the community that creates it.
But beyond that, I have also noticed something else going on that I find extremely interesting and may have even greater potential: This project seems to have formed a sort of spin-off concept: HitRECordland. This is another project that I think is absolutely ripe for it's own collab. This spin-off is no longer in any sense fan-fiction REmixed from another fictional universe. HitRECordland is something new and completely original to hitRECord.
Well, we create plenty of amazing, completely original work, such as MMM. What makes HitRECordland special, however, is that it actually has sociological implications for us. HitRECordland has all the hallmarks of a brand spankin' new cultural mythology. It is an allegorical story we tell ourselves, about ourselves. HitRECordland takes that to the next level, making that break from another mythos into creating a completely original mythology for our culture.
I think Jules' concept of putting hitRECorders into Wonderland may have been the beta test, the first crack at creating such a mythology. It tapped into our basic desire, as a new culture, to create a story to tell ourselves about ourselves.
A mythology is how any culture understands who we are and what our shared beliefs and values are, and how we orient and teach (enculturate) new members what we are about and how we do things here. Every culture needs a mythology for that reason - we have all seen the need for something that unifies our new culture and allows everyone who joins us to absorb our common values. It's how cultures develop coherence.
Because hitRECord is indeed a culture, a new culture for a new sort of virtual society, a community that exists online. Every great world culture has it's mythology, and hitRECordland may well prove to be *our* mythology. (This new hitRECord culture may even grow to supplant the real world culture that gave rise to it, as it's new ways and more positive values migrate offline into our daily lives, and hopefully radiate outward to include more and more of the world population.)
A cultural mythology (as opposed to a deliberately designed mythos, such as that of, say Tolkein - who himself REmixed heavily from several cultural mythologies) is by definition a large scale creative product that grows spontaneously as a vast collaboration of many people over considerable time. Sound familiar? Long before the age of individual authorship and ownership, whole societies were creating the world's most timeless art together, and owning it in common. The products of such immense collaborations are so good that they almost always make great literature that is enjoyed by completely different cultures all over the world.
In short, these societies did it the hitRECord way. Millenia before the Internet existed. And given that we are a society complete with a culture, I expect hitRECord will prove particularly adept at creating many new mythologies (among many other things).
ntheon remarked on February 17, 2010
I think it makes good sense at this point to give this concept it's own collab. I notice that the "Alice hits RECord" collab has grown *huge* (and perhaps unwieldy) and has budded off some major sub-concepts, that one by one I think will need to "leave the nest" and get their own collabs. I think a 30 to 50 minute animated short is a realistic goal, provided you can develop more characters, and I know you guys can do it.
I do share similar feelings as Man With Hat, that this is a type of fan fiction, though I would not call them concerns, so much.
If what you are creating here is indeed fan fiction, it may well be among the cleverst and artistic of fan fiction. It's definitely going to be fun, and I have enjoyed what I'm seeing come out of it. (I bet I'm not the only guy here who finds the Madhattress a huge turn on. :) ) Much of the bad rap on fan fiction comes from the fact that most of it is just not very good art. But there are exceptions - I have occasionally found what I would call fan fiction that is successful as art, and that certainly seems to be the case here.
I think what gives it that fan fiction sense, even though it is much better art than run of the mill fanfic, is the basic premise of the concept. To me, what makes something fanfic, regardless of whether it is good, bad or in between, is the element of wish fulfillment - obviously taking one's own characters (often a projection of oneself, one's close friends, or one's fantasies of people they would like to know) and shoving them into someone else's established fictional universe, often without any regard for how well the character(s) fits in the established universe. Thus what is known as the Mary Sue character (
Well, we create plenty of amazing, completely original work, such as MMM. What makes HitRECordland special, however, is that it actually has sociological implications for us. HitRECordland has all the hallmarks of a brand spankin' new cultural mythology. It is an allegorical story we tell ourselves, about ourselves. HitRECordland takes that to the next level, making that break from another mythos into creating a completely original mythology for our culture.
I think Jules' concept of putting hitRECorders into Wonderland may have been the beta test, the first crack at creating such a mythology. It tapped into our basic desire, as a new culture, to create a story to tell ourselves about ourselves.
A mythology is how any culture understands who we are and what our shared beliefs and values are, and how we orient and teach (enculturate) new members what we are about and how we do things here. Every culture needs a mythology for that reason - we have all seen the need for something that unifies our new culture and allows everyone who joins us to absorb our common values. It's how cultures develop coherence.
Because hitRECord is indeed a culture, a new culture for a new sort of virtual society, a community that exists online. Every great world culture has it's mythology, and hitRECordland may well prove to be *our* mythology. (This new hitRECord culture may even grow to supplant the real world culture that gave rise to it, as it's new ways and more positive values migrate offline into our daily lives, and hopefully radiate outward to include more and more of the world population.)
A cultural mythology (as opposed to a deliberately designed mythos, such as that of, say Tolkein - who himself REmixed heavily from several cultural mythologies) is by definition a large scale creative product that grows spontaneously as a vast collaboration of many people over considerable time. Sound familiar? Long before the age of individual authorship and ownership, whole societies were creating the world's most timeless art together, and owning it in common. The products of such immense collaborations are so good that they almost always make great literature that is enjoyed by completely different cultures all over the world.
In short, these societies did it the hitRECord way. Millenia before the Internet existed. And given that we are a society complete with a culture, I expect hitRECord will prove particularly adept at creating many new mythologies (among many other things).' target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue ).
Fan fiction is thus a perfectly legitimate form of REmix (though one that is not so much to my personal taste), And as we see here, it can in rare instances be some high quality art. Which is why I say I agree with Man With Hat, without necessarily being too concerned about it. I am interested to see whether and how well this particular style of REmix ends up being received outside of the community that creates it.
But beyond that, I have also noticed something else going on that I find extremely interesting and may have even greater potential: This project seems to have formed a sort of spin-off concept: HitRECordland. This is another project that I think is absolutely ripe for it's own collab. This spin-off is no longer in any sense fan-fiction REmixed from another fictional universe. HitRECordland is something new and completely original to hitRECord.
Well, we create plenty of amazing, completely original work, such as MMM. What makes HitRECordland special, however, is that it actually has sociological implications for us. HitRECordland has all the hallmarks of a brand spankin' new cultural mythology. It is an allegorical story we tell ourselves, about ourselves. HitRECordland takes that to the next level, making that break from another mythos into creating a completely original mythology for our culture.
I think Jules' concept of putting hitRECorders into Wonderland may have been the beta test, the first crack at creating such a mythology. It tapped into our basic desire, as a new culture, to create a story to tell ourselves about ourselves.
A mythology is how any culture understands who we are and what our shared beliefs and values are, and how we orient and teach (enculturate) new members what we are about and how we do things here. Every culture needs a mythology for that reason - we have all seen the need for something that unifies our new culture and allows everyone who joins us to absorb our common values. It's how cultures develop coherence.
Because hitRECord is indeed a culture, a new culture for a new sort of virtual society, a community that exists online. Every great world culture has it's mythology, and hitRECordland may well prove to be *our* mythology. (This new hitRECord culture may even grow to supplant the real world culture that gave rise to it, as it's new ways and more positive values migrate offline into our daily lives, and hopefully radiate outward to include more and more of the world population.)
A cultural mythology (as opposed to a deliberately designed mythos, such as that of, say Tolkein - who himself REmixed heavily from several cultural mythologies) is by definition a large scale creative product that grows spontaneously as a vast collaboration of many people over considerable time. Sound familiar? Long before the age of individual authorship and ownership, whole societies were creating the world's most timeless art together, and owning it in common. The products of such immense collaborations are so good that they almost always make great literature that is enjoyed by completely different cultures all over the world.
In short, these societies did it the hitRECord way. Millenia before the Internet existed. And given that we are a society complete with a culture, I expect hitRECord will prove particularly adept at creating many new mythologies (among many other things).
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